“I struggled really bad with like depression and self harm and anxiety and stuff, just growing up high school mostly. I had a boyfriend who was sexually abusive and I actually ended up pregnant and had a miscarriage right before graduation. I mean, I had been struggling, like we dated for nine months and the whole thing was just, you know, I didn't recognize what was going on. I was just young and naive and you know, I didn't see like hello, there's something obviously very, very wrong here. I had had a lot of boyfriends who'd kind of set me up for failure, like cheating, lying, doing drugs behind my back, stuff like that. And so I just couldn't see, like, “this isn't healthy.” I had never known anything different. And so it was just like a long downward spiral. I was in different kinds of talk therapy and emotional healing and all kinds of stuff that helped. I'm trying to think of the timeline, Its kind of all a blur. I try not to even think about that, you know? I guess some of it, you know, my parents knew I had problems and so they had put me in just like some normal talk therapy like “How do we feel? How did that make you feel?” You know, no so helpful.”

And then once I graduated that's when I really got serious because I was like, I'm supposed to be going to college for summer semester and here I am, you know, like six weeks before that and I'm pregnant and I don't know what to do. I was between 10 and 12 weeks when I miscarried. I finally broke up with the guy, I was ready to move on with my life.

After my husband and I got married I wanted to start trying to have kids because I had scar tissue on my ovaries which I knew would make it hard to get pregnant. So we tried for like eight months. My period was so so crazy so I had scheduled a fertility appointment to get it figured out. And this was so weird. I scheduled it, I went in on Friday and it was the Friday before the semester started. It must have been junior year? I had been married for almost a year. And at that appointment were like “Surprise, you're pregnant!” And I was like, Oh my gosh, I was so happy. You know? I'm driving home, I'm bawling. And then on Monday I started miscarrying on the first day of the semester I was like, why is this happening? I don't want to go to school, I don't want to do anything. And I was devastated and I was like, can we even keep trying right now? Maybe that's a sign, it's not the right time. And that kind of started like, you know, I had been doing really good for a couple of years and that kind of started like I don't, I don't know if it was really postpartum or I guess it would qualify as that because it was, but it just kind of started the next eight months were really hard until I got pregnant again. I had a really rough first trimester. I was really sick and it kind of depressed during those weeks. Literally all I could do was lay in bed and puke like 20 times a day. This wasn’t just normal morning sickness. I lost like 16 pounds the first trimester. But they were like “you'll be fine, you'll be fine.” And as soon as I hit like 14 weeks, I was fine. I went back to teaching dance and I taught it the rest of my pregnancy. Like I had back and rib pain but I mean I literally taught dance until 20 hours before he was born.

I was sure I wouldn’t go back down that road. Like I'll be fine, I won't be depressed. And I was taking vitamins and supplements and stuff like, okay, I'm gonna get this head on. I'm not going to have to deal with it. I'll just nip it in the bud before it even starts. There wasn't any like birth trauma. Everything went according to my birth plan. You know, I had like minor tearing, like a second degree tear. So that was like rough, but that's, you know, that's to be expected with the first baby. No big deal. Like, yeah, whatever. Like I felt really positive. I was like, okay, if things are going so great, I finally have this baby I've been dreaming of for years.

Speaker 1: (07:09)
And you know, it was like kind of felt redemptive to have, you know, this baby finally, after all these miscarriages and all these, you know, all of your, it's bad, bad stuff around like fertility and pregnancy and miscarriage and I'm just like, okay. Like that's in the past, this is a new chapter of life and I was feeling so good, but like, I don't know, by the time he was, what do you think Justin? Like three months maybe. I was just, it was bad. Yeah, the first little bit I think I was just so tired. I didn't really know what was going on. Like by, by mid summer it was bad and he was born in February. I think some of the worst is a little after him being born was really bad because especially since he couldn't move too much so we got a little better since I wasn't really doing much school and it was, yeah, he was like working full time and going to school part time and so I'd be like home alone with this baby out.

Speaker 1: (08:03)
I'm like, what do I do with this potato? We didn't know school full time and worked full time and that was part time because I was doing the nine credits and then the fall when I went back to school and was doing a lot of that, that's when it hit that again. Yeah, like the the worst I think was just for me. Like I was like this child is like, he can't do anything. Like, he's great and I love him, but he can like turn his head and look at me and maybe smile, you know, like that's it. Like I'm home alone like 12 hours a day while Justin's outlet going to school and working and you know, eating at the food trucks at vivid and you know, like, is that where you work? Yeah, I worked as an analyst. Um, and so, you know, it was hard and was like really resentful and I just got angry like I didn't have no, that rage was like, uh Oh, you know, I'll blow heart of postpartum depression.

Speaker 1: (09:03)
Like I was like, I'm not in control of my, it's like out of body experience I think is the best way I've heard it described. You're like, why am I saying this? And your mouth keeps saying it and you're like, stop whining. You know? I'm just like, I can't, like, I can't control myself and I, you know, it just, it was like the shame cycle. Like, why am I freaking out? I'm out of control. I'm so bad. Like, I need to, you know, be a better mom, be a better wife. Did you have myself, I mean besides him, did you have any family that was like regularly checking? We would go up and see my grandparents. Like every day I'm like, I can't be alone with this idea. I'm upstairs. And they were great. They would sit and play, but I never told him no.

Speaker 1: (09:45)
They're like kind of old school and you know, they're like, Oh, you know, what can we do to help you? But it wasn't like, are you okay? Yeah. Like we should be doing now. Yeah, we shouldn't be doing, that's why I went back to teaching dance three weeks after he was born and, and that was really good because I could like get out of the house twice a week and like be an adult, be myself. But it was also kind of like depressing in itself cause I stare in the mirror for five hours straight and be like, what is this? What is this? You know? Totally. Hi buddy. Hey grandpa.

Speaker 1: (10:35)
And so that was really good, but also bad because I'd be like, I can't dance. Like I used to. I've, you know, I don't have patience for these cues. I used to tell him that at that point I was teaching four days a week, not two. I had to drop some days cause I'm like, I just can't do this. And the kids, my youngest are like kindergarten up to like ninth grade. So you know, some of them like especially so two days a week we would, the studio teachers would go into a local daycare and teach the kids there. And it was so, I mean, it's so good for the kids. Um, but they just, they test your patients on a different kind of way. And I'm like, finally I was just like, I don't have the emotional energy for this thing. I just have to take a step back.

Speaker 1: (11:22)
And so I dropped one of my days. I don't just say I'm doing two days a week, sometimes I feel like I'm [inaudible] in a bottle. So you went down for four days, three and four to three, you might need one. Um, and so, you know, that was hard for me too. I'm like, Oh, you know, and it was right as so over the summer he was laid off. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, like I teach dance part time and we have a five month old baby and that's all worrying. Like, how are we going to do this? And he was, he's still finishing the school, so I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I was raised in a founded, it's like, really, you know, frugal. And like, my dad owns his own used car dealerships, which never happened. So it was like, you know, like, okay, I'm glad we know how to be friends.

Speaker 1: (12:13)
So like, you know, flashbacks of your childhood being like, Oh, hopefully we can in the fridge. Hopefully we can afford to eat this money. You know? So luckily we like got on WIC and he's on Medicaid and you know, it was, they're always really helpful. Yeah. And it's worked out. I'm still just teaching part time and that's why I took on that extra fourth day that I normally wouldn't have done. I was like, Oh, it'll be good. And I had to have some extra money, but in the long, and I'm like, it's just not worth it. Like it was not worth it because I'd get home and be like, those kids make me want to strangle every person I've ever seen a month, you know? And they were just, you were also dealing with so many like postpartum four months, like doesn't leave your body.

Speaker 1: (12:57)
And he was like, whew. It was like obviously the biggest nurse or ever. So I was like physically exhausted from that. He'd wake up, you know, all night and need to nurse. And I'm like, I'm trying to teach dads to, am I going to do this? It was just like a lot of, I mean obviously I'm, every person has a lot going on postpartum, but it was like, it was a lot. Right. And I, I don't know, realize how bad it was getting, you know, you're just like, we're doing okay. We're doing okay. We're doing okay. We're not doing okay. [inaudible] yeah, I'd be fine until all of a sudden just snap and be like, Oh my gosh, what's going on? You know, take this kid away from me. I have to go be alone. And you know, just like I'd get so angry and I'm like, why am I angry?

Speaker 1: (13:42)
I have the life I've always dreamed of. You know, I have a husband getting a great degree. I have, you know, beautiful, beautiful baby. Like I have my dream job of teaching dance, like, you know, cheap rent, big apartment and might not know why am I not happy? And obviously it's just not the way life works. You know, if you're, if your brain is not, Nope, we're making the right chemicals, you're, she's not going to be happy no matter how great life is. So I don't know, does that, sorry, that was like a really long explanation. Is that what you're looking? That's great. So, so how did you get out of that? I mean, I just weaned him like two weeks ago, so I was still nursing through all that and I kept thinking like maybe it'll get better once I wean him. I can sleep more.

Speaker 1: (14:30)
Yeah, I can, you know, be more of myself without being like I cashed to a small human all the time and he's still still, do you still have all of, are you still things are better the way we just had to work it out where like in the morning if it's past like 6:00 AM and Reverend wakes up like it's Justin's turn. Like I just stay in bed and sleep. Yeah. And like the sleep has helped so much. So home you don't play with him or put him in the playpen and do homework for like two or three hours every morning.

Speaker 1: (15:05)
Okay. Sorry about the no homework part. I was trying to be optimistic, you know, just take him like Robin's room is across this hall. Yeah. It's like a big rec room. It's like the size of you don't like it. You got a little Crick here. Yes. He's living the life. And so like the extra sleep helped a ton and getting rid of one of my days of work helped so much because those kids, like I don't, you know, their parents would, they would stay at the daycare like 12 hours a day and it was, you know, it's like, um, it's not title one, that's what like elementary schools are, but you know, like a lower income. Yeah. Like, you know, government assistance type of daycare and the kids, they really just needed like emotional energy and I didn't have it to give them. So it was so draining.

Speaker 1: (15:52)
Like, you know, they'd tell me like, Oh yeah, my dad screamed at me seven times this morning. And you know, we've, we go home and you know, our parents drop us off at 7:00 AM and they pick us up at 7:00 PM and then we go to, you know, we go back to work with them until, you know, whatever time. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, like you guys just need love and attention and, and I can't get it and I can't give that to, like I just had to hand off my classes to another teacher. Right. Which was fine. Like it worked out when I was really stressed about that because there wasn't another teacher who could take them. But like somehow something opened up like it was totally meant to be. Right. Totally. Totally been to be right. Um, and so that has helped a ton. I don't, what else have we done that has helped a ton, babe?

Speaker 1: (16:36)
Like sleeping more and dropping Monday, daycare. Those were big. I'm trying to remember. I saw him probably getting bigger too and him getting better and yeah. Not being a potato, like being someone I can play with and interact with and feel like I'm, you know, having like a bond instead of being like, here's the app folded. Yeah. Hold here. You know, and he would nurse. Oh my gosh, that's so draining. Yeah. I'm like, I can't make milk. I can't always have you like attached to my nipples all day long. Just ask me. Yeah, no. Yup. Totally. Oh, and so yeah, I don't, and even just like recognizing like, okay, I'm struggling and like coming to terms with it instead of being like, we're okay, we're okay. We're okay. You know, that has helped a ton too. I don't, I don't know when it was like, when did you know it was like the worst? Like at what point did you like, what was like the bottom when you're like, no, like something I have to change this. Yeah.

Speaker 1: (17:47)
I just remember being like, I hate myself. I'm like falling back to being like, I'm gonna hurt myself. I'm going to, you know, self harm. And I was like, they're going to take away my baby. I was like so terrified. Like somebody is going to come and take away my baby and not let me, you know, take care of him. I was probably around September last September. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Cause I remember, yeah, the holidays were better. I was just like, you know, I couldn't even recognize that. Like that's not a logical thought process. Like, nobody's going to come and take away my baby. Right. But like in the moment I was like, you know, terrified of them and it doesn't even make sense. It does. But yeah, I like, I know women like have that fear like, Oh, I can't be depressed or you know, they won't think I'm a competent mother, but like it's, you know, it just doesn't feel logical now that I'm stepped back from that.

Speaker 1: (18:46)
Right. But yeah, that was like in the mid fall and then it started getting better. We realized like, okay, I just have to sleep more. Like I just have to, you know, take some time tapes and did quit the day. Oh, January it was when I quit the day care. Maybe that's when it started getting better, but I remember the holidays were better. Maybe. I like gradually, you know, I started sleeping more and I drop at the day care day and it just kind of was getting closer to like one uphill from there I think. Or I guess is that downhill? Whatever's easier, you know? Yeah. So I was getting, I realized like, okay, I need to like take better care of myself and just recognize like it's gonna be okay. He's getting older. Like Oh my gosh, having babies is so hard. I don't like that. I don't like having babies.

Speaker 1: (19:39)
I had one and it was terrifying. It was horrible. I want to do it again. I'm like a bad and her in chief, right. Anyways, so she was interviewing this psychology professor at BYU. She was working on some article I think about postpartum depression and she was saying like, what is the number one advice you would give to women with postpartum depression? He's like, sleep. You just have to fleet, you can get like five hours of straight solid. You're good. Oh my gosh. Like the broken sleep. That's what I could not do. Like I'm like, I'm waking up and going back. I'll get up and go back. Cause like you never hit like deep sleep. You're always in that light, like almost there stage. Right. And then you hear them cough and you're like [inaudible] and you're like, Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yep. I get that. Yeah. She, she slept here so she

Speaker 2: (20:48)
would never sleep on her own ever week. And we tried like after like four months, we tried sleep training, we tried everything, we tried every single thing we could and she would not do it. And so we were just like, we have to get sleep. And so she just slept in bed with us because that was the only way that any sort of sleep at all. And like I realized like she was way too old to be sleeping in our bed, but also I need sleep so I don't really care.

Speaker 1: (21:09)
That's so sad. I'm like, I don't care. Left. I mean, so he coast slept the whole like from the beginning until, I don't know, like four months and then like four to six months he would like start in his own bed and then at like midnight and then like eight months he would come to our bed at like 4:00 AM you know, like every couple of months he got, he sleeps, he sleeps really well in his crib except for like 4:00 AM he still is like conditioned to wake up and nurse. But since I weaned him a few weeks ago, we've just been letting them try it out and I struggled so much, like kind of not like we're going to sleep train without crying it out. Like I thought we would do that. Yeah. All right. That did not work. But it was fine because like when I tried it before, he'd like cry until he threw up where he'd like cry until hip hop.

Speaker 1: (22:01)
I'm like, they're dying, you know? But then like, I don't know if it was developmental or if it was an emotional thing. Like all the sudden one day I was like, we have to sleep in this house. Like we're just, he was like, what's he already one at that point? When did we start doing the crying? It was really recently, like, yeah, he was like 11 months or 10 months, 10 months. And I was just like, we're just gonna let him cry. The first day he cried for like three hours straight and I was like, this is heartbreaking and this is so sad, but we'd have to sleep in this house. And so he like cried for like three hours the first and like two hours and then one hour and then like five minutes and then he was fine. But like I know that if I tried it a few months earlier it wouldn't have worked because he wouldn't have been ready. Like yeah, once he was ready it was okay. Yeah. But before that I was like, get in your own bed, I'm going to die. You do not do this. Oh my gosh. And I just sit there was like a stairwell. I don't know if we'll go over there if you ever like there's a stairwell that goes right outside his door, but I just sit there, I mean my head on my door and cry to him cry and be like, yep, he's ready for sleep. No he's no gosh,

Speaker 2: (23:18)
yes I do. Yes. We had to do like a version of like a modified version of cried out like so we did at about nine months. That's when I started to like, actually like my child, like really hated her before and I think it was just I, it was, cause she's screaming at me all the time like I just shut up. What up

Speaker 1: (23:37)
kid? [inaudible] say that to my kids. But sometimes I'm like, dude, shut up. Yeah. Like yeah,